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  • European Union (EU) countries
    often given preference over Greeks from abroad or non Greek EU citizens when it comes to jobs This may be true of other member states as well despite all EU citizens being equal in both theoretically and lawfully It is also important to note that not all citizens of EU member states have been granted the right to free movement within the EU and not all EU countries are Schengen countries Sources Another EU project in trouble The Economist EU accession Entry is a long way off for Turkey Financial Times Emerging Balkans EU prospects Reuters Trustlaw Related posts How to get EU citizenship passports visas driver s licenses and permits Current Schengen countries What is an EFTA country What is an EEA country Photo from dreamstime com Permalink 2 Comments mari wrote June 25th 2012 at 17 06 Hallo Im from Serbia my country is in canditate status to enter the European Union does this means that we have equal rights to work in Greece as any other european citicen or I we still need residency work permit Kat Reply June 26th 2012 at 11 06 A candidate country can take up to 10 years to enter the EU then existing EU countries can impose restrictions on citizens from a newly admitted country from free movement without a residence work permit for up to 7 years Potentially Serbians will not be able to move to Greece or anywhere else in the EU for 8 15 years Greece also has higher unemployment than Serbia and may be exiting the eurozone by end of 2012 so I see few benefits in making this inquiry Sorry comments are closed at this time Greek News RT PGiannakouris Clouds over the ancient Acropolis hill Ap photo Petros Giannakouris https t co jFy9mSPzNA RT nytimesworld Tales of break ins burglaries and robberies accompany the Greek debt crisis http t co dPVxf6vOb2 http t co diLJm39OQa RT graemewearden Greek parliament approves bailout reform package as it happened http t co qs5iiGi4Ju http t co 64IhO9LCts RT TheEconomist Here is an effort to explain the Greek deal in all its absurdity http t co M5vRLtUHr3 http t co a245q6cV6h Banks open today in Greece but many limitations and capital controls still in place naftemporikigr http t co JgPaqMcgIK RT TheEconomist No means yes Signing a humiliating agreement is just the start for Greece http t co UyDFKUZ6rB http t co G26avOjX3E RT graemewearden Greek crisis Protests in Athens ahead of tonight s bailout vote live Photos Reuters AP http t co qpBFeTSk6F http Follow livingingreece Best of 1 KTEL Buses of Greece 2 Acquiring EU citizenship through ancestry or naturalization 3 Jobs and salaries in Athens Greece 4 Free Greek language lessons 5 Best places to work in Greece 6 Should I move to Greece 7 Taste of America in Greece 8 How to start a business in Greece 9 Athens Greece Cost of living Best of An American in Athens 1 Four songs in Greek that

    Original URL path: http://livingingreece.gr/2007/06/09/european-union-eu-member-states/ (2016-02-11)
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  • Greek citizenship through naturalization
    This website was created to be a different voice and practical resource so come back anytime to read get a little help or share your stories All my best to you nader wrote July 3rd 2010 at 22 29 I am from Iran living in Athens and from 2000 i pay IKA and work all these years I married a Philipino who stays in greece since 1992 and works and pays IKA as well now we both have 2 years residence work permits we asked many times about what we need to do to have greek citizenship and they keep telling us perimene wait until when do we need to wait what we need to do the law said we can do it and apply but no one look teak the law to help where we need to go and ask help really we are tired please help us Kat Reply July 22nd 2010 at 23 31 The requirements for applying for Greek citizenship are all detailed above It takes much more than IKA and a residence permit I ve already helped you by telling you the law the Greek citizenship process and where to apply All you have to do is follow the instructions Jason wrote September 4th 2010 at 05 08 Love this blog It s so hard to get up to date info and all too often so frustrating In November 2009 my mother applied for Greek citizenship through the Sydney Consulate via my Greek grandfather We wanted to lodge my application at the same time to avoid delays but were advised my mother must have her citizenship prior to lodging my application We have provided all the relevant information proof my grand fathers birth in Greece etc and followed up a few times but heard nothing about her application Is this correct that you must wait to lodge my application Given she is female what would the typical time frames be for her application Given I am male will the process not only start all over again once she gets her citizenship Sorry for all the questions Kat Reply September 6th 2010 at 23 58 Hi Jason Depends on the case If you look at Lukas case above you he was encouraged to apply at the same time as his mother but you ll see in his updates that his mother s application is progressing while his is going much slower You need to follow whatever advice is given to you by the consulate The time it takes to be granted Greek citizenship doesn t necessarily have to do with your mother being female It depends on her eligibility the documents she provided who is handling her case how many applications are waiting to be processed before her in short lots of factors From tracking previous cases it s easier for the next generation you to process a claim to Greek citizenship via ancestry if the previous generation your mom already did it Please keep in mind that up to two years waiting is not unusual Also be aware that the Greek Citizenship Code just changed a few months ago so staff may be overloaded especially since they d already complained of being short of staff If you lived in Greece full time you d realize that waiting since November 2009 isn t a long time Be patient and let us know what happens All best Lori wrote September 23rd 2010 at 09 38 Dear Kat Excellent site and as I read through I shook my head in agreement smiled at the TRUTHS you tell and wallowed once again in my anguishes over the years of work I have put in without proper compensation insurance or respect and the working mentality in Greece The reason I am writing however is not about employment but about citizenship requirements I have been a resident with working permit for about 7 years and I obtained this permit because I have been married to a Greek citizen for 12 years The local authority who assists me with renewing my residence permit every 5 years told me not to apply for Greek citizenship because it would cost 1 500 euro and they usually deny it the first time in order to collect the fee twice This seems absolutely ridiculous since I am married and have 2 children but when advice can potentially save me 3 000 euro that I do not have I must heed it Recently I was told that the doors have opened between the USA and Greece That my husband can travel to the USA with me without a visa and that I can simply apply for citizenship and receive it without having to pay any hefty fees Do you know anything about this Can you point me in the right direction Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated I ll be following from now on and you have a permanent location in my favorites Kat Reply October 6th 2010 at 00 44 It s late I m tired and there are a ton of comments I haven t yet answered so I ll be brief As it says at the beginning of this article a new law pertaining to Greek citizenship and permits came into effect a few months ago but it s 52 pages long more than 20 000 words and I m in the middle of translating it with a lawyer The article will be updated when the translation is done Pertaining to what you were told As it says in the article applying the first time costs 1 500 euros the second and consecutive times is half off meaning 750 Under the new law the fee is 700 euros for the first application but keep in mind there are a lot of requirements aside from the fee Please take a look at the list the new law changes the naturalization process very little Heeding the advice dispensed to you by public sector employees is a personal choice but it may cost you opportunities Keep in mind that not everyone is informed of the law and rumors and misinformation persist Your Greek husband can travel to the USA under the visa waiver program if he qualifies See Greece enters the U S visa waiver program As a non EU citizen of no Greek origin you cannot apply for Greek citizenship anywhere on this planet without paying a fee Thank you for following and favoring me All best john wrote October 26th 2010 at 21 01 hi am very grateful for yr articles and it helped me a lot i read the articles and i found out what i really need to get but the issue is in my own case i was in greece for six years with perimenete that s the interim permit before i had a problem i was inside for like 2 years and later i was out not really convicted but in the immigration unit they have tried me for deportation before but the airline refuse to take me because they couldn t provide value travelling document later on i was released i got my interim permit back after this i met my wife who is greek we married in greece and i got my 5 years residence permit About a year after we moved abroad we have been abroad now for almost 7 years that means we h married for almost 8 years now we have two kids they are 7 and 6 years respectively although they are born abroad but they have got dual nationality greek and my nationality am from africa although am due for british nationality but for the sake of my wife and the kids and for the future because i dont know where we might end up in future maybe greece am thinking of gettin greek nationality but with my past record and i have been leaving abroad for the past 7 years although i always come to greece with my family for holiday occassionally and the long procedure i dont even know if am really qualified and even if it gonna be wasting of effort and money you know why once about 2 years ago when my wife was in greece and went to make enquiry about my nationality in greek local government in greece they told her then that am not qualified because am living abroad and even the residence permit that i have in greece has expired The advice i need now is am i eligible to apply or i should just face my citizenship here in uk and forget about the greek nationality because here is straight forward and clear thanks Kat Reply October 26th 2010 at 21 48 The information given to your Greek wife was correct and the information in my article is clear If you read it then you should know that you are not eligible for Greek citizenship You must have a full valid residence work permit and live in Greece for 3 years just prior to submitting the application You must have the Greek language certification You must pass the interview Aside from not being eligible having a past immigration issue is grounds for denial And if you were eligible and did get Greek citizenship you would be required to serve Greek military duty if you are under the age of 45 It makes more sense to get UK citizenship which would entitle you to live work in Greece and any EU country without the army high fees or coming back here Carole wrote November 1st 2010 at 09 18 We have a 21 year old friend of Albanian descent who has lived in Greece since the age of 2 His mother married a greek national He has all his school papers to prove he has been educated in Greece He has no birth certificate or other proof of nationality He would like to obtain greek citizenship and to do his national service What is the best way for him to go about this Venessa wrote November 18th 2010 at 20 14 Comment 1 Hi Kat I wonder if you are able to clarify something for me I am here in Greece with a 5 year residence permit I am married to a Greek citizen and am not an EU passport holder My father passed away and I left Greece for almost 3 months while I attended to family issues back home What I basically want to know is is there any time limit that one is allowed out the country for during these 5 years I read in the article in order to apply for citizenship it should not be for more than 10 continuous months but when it comes time to renew my permit will the length of time that I am out of Greece affect the process of renewing I am leaving again to go back home for a month and I am worried that these trips back and forth may affect my permit Thanks Comment 2 Thank you very much Kat And thank you for this wonderful website which has helped me out even though I am not an American Citizen It s very hard to get answers here in Greece and your webpage is such a breath of fresh air for those of us that need the guidance Thank you Kat Reply November 19th 2010 at 01 19 Answer 1 This is an excellent question that challenged and helped me learn something new Thank you From the laws I researched and read about residence permits for non EU spouses family members of Greek EU citizens the primary requirement for renewal is proving you still have a valid relationship to the Greek citizen proof of financial means to support yourself through a job or spousal support if unemployed and proof that you are legally residing in Greece with the Greek EU citizen at the same address In cases of military service vocational training transfer or personal serious illness and extenuating circumstances that require you to be transferred outside Greece for treatment aka Greece does not have facilities to treat you authorities say that a non EU family member of a Greek EU citizen should not be absent for up to 12 consecutive months It says nothing about months in five 5 years but it does say that you should not be temporarily absent more than six 6 months in any 12 month period Six 6 months or 185 days is usually the point in many countries not just Greece at which someone is determined to be a resident or not So keep the six 6 months in mind don t worry and take care Wishing you all the best Answer 2 Livingingreece gr is for everyone not just U S citizens Everything that applies to Americans applies to all non EU citizens in Greece and half of my readers are EU and Greek citizens who ask me for advice and get useful information from the articles available Helping people like you is very easy Thank you for trusting me and have a safe trip Xavi wrote November 26th 2010 at 23 48 Dear Kat I recently discovered your very informative website and wanted to ask for your informed opinion as I understand there was a comprehensive citizenship reform passed in March 2010 in the Greek Parliament I have a translation of the new Code of Greek Citizenship but have not yet fully processed all of its implications My wife was born in Albania and then lived in Greece legally from the time she moved there with her family in 1991 when she was 11 years old She completed 1 year of grade school 6th grade then did 3 years at Gymnasium and 3 years at Lyceum High School and attended a private university in Athens for 3 years She is now interested in obtaining her Greek passport and upon reviewing the Greek Citizenship Code it appears that she can apply for citizenship via both ways as a person of Greek origin through her Grandmother and or as a long time resident of Greece She just completed her university studies here in the US and she is currently a US passport holder and naturalized citizen of the US by marriage She meets criteria 1 and 2 for Greek citizenship but criteria 3 as you have listed presents some uncertainty She has seven 7 years legal residence in Greece but has let her long term residence permit card lapse since she was studying in the US and became a US citizen Since she has been in absence from Greece for 10 continuous months in the last five years I was wondering if there are any special exemptions or cases you are aware of for individuals who attended school and grew up in Greece We are thinking that it may be easier for her to pursue the Greek citizenship by number of years of residence since all of her school papers are easily retrievable but wondered if you think that the last two parts of criteria 3 described above negate that option What would you suggest is the best way for her to apply for citizenship and a Greek passport Obtaining her grandmother s marriage birth certificate may prove difficult since we would need to travel and likely have it translated but it is a viable option Any insights suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated Thank you for maintaining such a helpful resource on the process Kat Reply December 4th 2010 at 11 38 The two translations I ve seen of the new Greek Citizenship Code contain errors and are incomplete as they are 18 pages while the actual code is 52 pages and one was done by a law student not living in Greece and the other by a translator unfamiliar with law This is why I did my own in cooperation with a Greek American lawyer Your wife cannot apply for Greek citizenship through naturalization via residence in Greece Why 1 Because under 3 of the Basic Criteria it says the seven 7 years residence must be consecutive before date of application Being as she became a U S citizen by marriage and I know how long that takes she is disqualified Strike one 2 There is no special exemption to get around the 10 months absence in the last 5 years unless it was a case of military duty a time of war or life threatening illness that demanded treatment outside Greece Strike two 3 Under documents to apply for Greek citizenship it says the applicant must have a current residence permit Your wife does not have one Strike three There is an option to apply for Greek citizenship via attending school in Greece but your wife does not meet the criteria The only way your wife could apply for Greek citizenship is through the grandmother I see no other option There s no reason to travel to get her grandmother s birth certificate or have it translated Use Greek citizenship by origin descent or ancestry as a guide to gathering the documentation Good luck Maria wrote January 13th 2011 at 10 10 Finally a website that is in plain english if you know what I mean Thanks for that I am a US citizen married to a Greek We have an 11 year old daughter who was born in the US We have been here since 2001 and obtained my resident permit in 2004 which expired in 2008 Unfortunately I forgot to renew it in time and it had expired for 1 1 2 years before I even noticed After waiting 6 months from applying for renewal I was called in for a hearing before a committee Went through complete hell but in the end my application was accepted I received my new permanent residence card but the date of issue is 2010 I have not been out of the country since 2004 which is proven by my US passport Thinking of applying for greek citizenship but don t know if this 1 1 2 year lapse on my cards will be taken into consideration Wanted to find out before laying out money and wasting my time What exactly proves how long someone is living here Kat Reply January 14th 2011 at 00 51 Hi there I do what you mean and thank YOU for acknowledging and appreciating what I have on offer I reviewed the law as written and made an inquiry at the citizenship office to get a second opinion before answering your question and I ll tell you both what I know and what I was told The law says you need to be here three consecutive years prior to applying for Greek citizenship via naturalization Under normal circumstances your current permit to prove three 3 years legal residency in Greece would be sufficient because there would be no lapse and easily verified in their computer records Your passport is not necessarily proof of continuous presence in Greece because electronic records and stamps or lack thereof can be inaccurate Because there was a lapse in your case there is a gray area If they go strictly by what can be proven via residence permits you need to wait until a full three consecutive years has passed before applying If you explain the situation and have fulfilled every other requirement it is POSSIBLE not guaranteed they may allow you to prove it another way such as submitting work contracts or ensima you earned during this period Being on your spouse s insurance and tax statements and are not proof you were physically living in Greece As I m sure you know it will be highly dependent on who waits on you if a superior is consulted and if the Greek citizenship committee that reviews your application finds it acceptable It can be approved or denied at any stage of the process Therefore I advise you to consult with the dimarxeio and or citizenship office before paying the fee and see what they say see Contact Information above I would ask at least two different people because answers could be different I hope you ll come back and let me know what happened I d like to know how things worked out for you or if there s something more I can do to help All best zac wrote January 14th 2011 at 06 40 Hello I m a non EU citizen married with Greek women one year and as couple we are living three years together in Ireland I ve never been in Greece before in my life but I m wondering if I can I apply for Greek citizenship and passport without living in Greece where in Ireland we have all our documents and tax clearance certificate etc with us Kat Reply January 15th 2011 at 01 30 I get the feeling you didn t read the article You do not qualify In fact you don t even meet the three basic criteria Greek citizenship after marriage to a Greek citizen takes much more than getting married Please read the article to find out why Mirjana wrote March 7th 2011 at 21 29 Hi I applied for Greek citizenship a year and a half ago No reply whatsoever I tried Nomarhia they gave me the phone at the Ministry of Interior Nobody answers Ever Who can help me find out what s going on with my application Appreciate your support thanks Kat Reply March 8th 2011 at 01 45 There are three reasons for the long wait a It can take several years for your application to be reviewed under the old law which is when you submitted your application as I say in How long does the Greek citizenship process take b In February 2011 a representative said there are 180 000 citizenship applications being reviewed most of which are from those of Greek ancestry descent c The supreme court ruled the latest Greek Citizenship Code unconstitutional in February so many pending applications are on hold until a final decision is made on how to go forward I explain this in the section called Challenge to New Greek Citizenship Code 3838 2010 The nomarxeia won t help you because they have nothing to do with processing Greek citizenship applications There are three phone numbers listed above for the citizenship office at the interior ministry which is where you need to inquire If you remember me please come back and tell me what happened Thank you for your question All best Erika wrote March 17th 2011 at 17 47 Hello I would like to know if is there any way I can obtain the Greek citizenship I am a U S citizen divorced from a Greek citizen and we have a Greek American child 9 yrs old who is already registered in Athens I lived in Greece for a year and I went to school there one semester Thank you I appreciate your help Kat Reply March 17th 2011 at 20 04 It takes more than having a child a previous marriage to a Greek citizen and one year living in Greece to qualify for Greek citizenship Please see the requirements above All best Memuna wrote March 20th 2011 at 15 29 hi i am from Pakistan my husband worked in Greece for 10 years as a kitchen designer and fitter he has permanent residence permit of greece but then he joined me in uk we are in uk for three years can he now apply for greek citizenship or a greek passport Kat Reply March 21st 2011 at 02 27 If you look at the section above called Basic criteria for Greek citizenship you ll see under 3 c that he must live in Greece for seven consecutive years prior to submitting an application with an absence no more than 10 months Your husband has been gone for 3 years That means he is no longer eligible to apply for Greek citizenship and he cannot have a Greek passport without Greek citizenship Further under Documents fingerprints and fees you ll see that there are a number of other requirements to fulfill It s not as simple as living in Greece and having a residence permit Lukas wrote April 9th 2011 at 04 23 Hi Kat I wanted to let you know it s been almost two years since I submitted my paperwork for dual citizenship via my grandmother I suppose since the Greek government is revamping the rules for naturalization based on your info I ll have to wait a while longer It s amazing it could take this long Best Luke Follow up Hi Kat I am doing well thanks for asking and Thanks for the clarification No rush on my end just amazed at the time it takes I ll check in with the embassy here in DC in a few weeks to get a status update Thanks again for such a great site I ll keep you posted Lukas Kat Reply April 9th 2011 at 11 40 Hi Luke How are you I was thinking about you when reading through the comments the other day wondering if you d been granted Greek citizenship yet The Greek naturalization process being challenged is the one for citizens of no Greek origin descent so this would not affect you In your case if you look at the updated section How long does the Greek citizenship process take I m guessing it has to do with the 180 000 pending applications from foreign born Greek nationals such as yourself the reorganization of municipalities and transfer of state employees Part of the new law under review is the one year deadline to return a decision to the citizenship applicant so authorities unfortunately can still take as long as they want Thank you so much for remembering to check in I look forward to the day you tell me you got Greek citizenship Hang in there Follow up As you well know Greece has its own time schedule and no two people s experience are necessarily the same due to flexible rules and lack of results driven deadlines Thank you so much for giving back to the website and your kind words Nigel B wrote May 16th 2011 at 13 32 I have just come across this site after living in Greece for some 25 years and having the repetitive argument of why don t I apply for Greek citizenship As holder of an EU passport I have avoided most of the trails of the stories above However buying a car necessitated a new Residence Permit and now I am asked to apply for a new teaching permit including a note from a state Psych stating I am not mad I can laugh about it but so many have been worn down by procedures designed to delay not to protect the country or to help those who need the protection Keep up the good work Kat Reply May 16th 2011 at 23 17 The three questions I get are a Why don t you get a job at the American embassy As if it were that easy b Why don t you just marry a Greek Right like that solves everything Not c Why don t you have citizenship after 12 years As if it were that easy I find that most people don t know the law and or say you re wrong when you tell them what it is Unfortunately I m still worn down by bureaucracy but at least I can use my pain to help others and laugh about it later I appreciate you saying hello and the words of encouragement All best Lost wrote June 26th 2011 at 21 14 Hi Kat my mother recently informed me that my uncle is stranded in Greece I do not know the details of why or how he got there I do know that he has no work therefore no money and no place to stay I dont even know where or how to start helping him I am hoping you could impart some knowledge to me Thank you Kat Reply June 27th 2011 at 00 07 You didn t provide enough information so it s difficult to tell you how to start helping him Do you know where he is and how to contact him Or do you need help with that Do you have other relatives Is he a Greek citizen or in an illegal resident status If he s in Athens there are places he can go to sleep and get a meal If he s in an illegal resident status he may have been detained Are you willing to send him money and a plane ticket to bring him to where you are It can be arranged through money transfer Western Union bank etc and booking through an airline as long as he has travel documents passport and or ID Sylvia N wrote July 20th 2011 at 04 37 hi i got some questions for you i am a romanian citizen in april 2005 i went in Greece got married in september with a greek man after 2 years Romania got into EU and now some months we separated they pass since we got married 6 years but we couldn t have kids i left Greece and went in UK 2 months now but i am thinking to go back and apply for greek citizenship can you tell me which are the chances to get it i do speak read very well less write greek all depends of your answer now if i go or not thank you very much and congrats for all the information you got you can work in Greece at the government maybe things are going to get better if you do see ya Kat Reply July 20th 2011 at 07 15 Perhaps you didn t read or understand the article Under Basic criteria for Greek citizenship it says in 3C that you must be a long term resident of Greece for 7 years if you do not have children with a Greek citizen Therefore you do not qualify It also takes much more than being married or living in Greece Look at the long list of requirements under Documents fee and fingerprints You re already an EU citizen so think about why you want Greek citizenship Coming back to Greece is a personal choice and I cannot help with that decision mamta wrote July 23rd 2011 at 17 29 hey i am married with an estonian boy he is living with me in spain i have 5 year resident permit of spain if i move to greece then plz tell me in how much time i ll get nationality from greece Kat Reply July 23rd 2011 at 19 43 Read the article above to learn all the requirements to apply for Greek citizenship as a non EU citizen It s not as simple as being married to an EU citizen and living in Greece From what I know about Spanish citizenship it makes more sense to stay in Spain and get citizenship there instead of coming to Greece and starting from nothing fr paul wrote July 29th 2011 at 15 42 I got five years here in greece and now i have also one kid of 19 months can I apply for a greek citizenship and passport is it possible for me and am from uganda thanks Kat Reply July 29th 2011 at 20 12 Based only on what you told me the answer is no Look at the basic criteria then all the requirements documents and fees above in order to be eligible to apply for Greek citizenship 2nd Warning If people keep asking questions without reading the information given above in the article I will close this post to comments or stop answering redundant questions Mike wrote September 12th 2011 at 15 51 I am a citizen of the EU country Poland and I want to get Greek citizenship Unfortunately I don t have the valid passport I want to know if I could attach a copy of my ID card as a valid travel document instead If yes should this document be legalised affixed with apostille and translated into Greek or not Currently i am a citizen of Poland and my ID as well as passport is written in Latin characters And another question I was wondering if the passport document should also be affixed with apostille Waiting for your reply Thanks Mike Kat Reply September 12th 2011 at 18 23 Answers are already above in the article For the first and second question see Documents fees fingerprints under 3 They should accept your ID but you can renew your passport at the Polish embassy consulate if they don t Apostille is only required for the birth certificate as I say under 5 I have made the instructions as clear as possible Don t imagine requirements that aren t there and make it harder for yourself If you go through the process and something is different than what I listed above please come back and tell me as a way to give back for the assistance you received Wishing you all the best Tara wrote October 30th 2011 at 11 03 Hi what great work you have done at this site Most informative and most organized which comes as a great refreshment after all things greek Well done It is an amazing fact that the most informative sites on any subject are almost always done by Americans I wonder if you could shed some light my story is as follows I have been married to a Greek Austrian citizen for over 5 years now and have had my 5 year residence permit just renewed applied for a renewal few days ago and have lived in Greece for 8 consecutive years We have no kids but the husband has 2 from his previous marriage both live in Germany I believe i understand most of the requirements listed for the greek citizenship such as the knowledge of the language history the permit part and so on but after how many years of legal residence in Gr can one apply for a Greek citizenship Is it definitely 7 years as stated or has there been any recent changes to the law My issue gets a bit more complicated than a wish for naturalization in Greece I was granted a permission for permanent stay in UK over 10 years ago and and on the basis of that was issued a Travel Document My TD has been valid for 10 years and expires soon in November 2011 I have no other ID Passport or Travel Document I have no idea how to and from what state authority to obtain any kind of ID document According to what i have read Greek naturalization might take up to 2 years and if ever successful and I no longer live in UK My status in UK must have changed but i am thinking of applying to UK Authorities for the extension of the TD as they were the last Authority that has issued me an ID document until i obtain a national passport It would be impossible for me to work here or do anything without having an ID Would you have any thoughts on this I had my application ready for naturalization in UK in 2003 but never managed to go through with it as we sold the house and moved to Greece at the time Yes i have regretted it many times over Would traveling to UK make things any easier Btw my British solicitor is a bit lost as in how i would get treated in UK now Many thanks for your time and understanding And good

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  • Christmas doro
    even though the period lasts until December 31 and the rate of pay on the date of departure is used if the employee quit or was terminated before December 10 Calculation of the Christmas doro is based on regularly earned or periodically repeated wages and other benefits and allowances for an average of 25 days work that form part of the normal monthly salary This would include legal holiday and or vacation pay food housing and travel allowances bonuses for productivity efficiency regular work hours in which the employee earns Sunday or overtime pay tips given to the employee by customers or clients According to the Κέντρο Πληροφόρησης Εργαζομένων Ανέργων Kentro Pliroforisis Ergazomenon Anergon ΚΕΠΕΑ KEPEA or Employee and Unemployment Information Center a full Christmas doro is calculated using the gross not net monthly salary multiplied by 1 041666 For example 900 euros x 1 041666 938 euros For those entitled to a partial doro the calculation is 2 25 of the monthly wage or two days pay for every 19 calendar days of employment or a fraction thereof Christmas doro payments are taxed and social insurance contributions for this holiday payment appear as an entry separate from regular monthly payments on your printout Please consult an adept accountant or epitheorisi employee to determine the correct calculation of a partial Christmas doro I will not be able to assist you nor do I encourage people to disclose private details such as salaries Absences included in the Christmas doro Authorized legal maternity leave Absence by students on the days of exams Therapy ordered by a licensed physician of an insurance fund Absence allowed by the insurer in case of illness Excluded from the Christmas doro Unpaid or unauthorized leave of any kind sickness vacation family emergency between May 1 to December 10 Unauthorized overtime sixth day of a work week Bonuses paid for difficult working conditions Union activities Voluntary participation in strikes and work stoppages In these uncertain economic times it is also appropriate to mention that an employee s Christmas doro is reduced if a business or company shuts down permanently or temporarily anytime from May 1 to December 31 According to Eleftherotypia the doro is reduced by half if a company closed for a period more than one month but not longer than two months and reduced by two thirds if the business shut down for more than two months However it does not apply to businesses that closed a physical location and employees continue d to render services nor does it apply to seasonal businesses Professions with regular but variable income Taxi drivers receive a Christmas doro from mid December to early January charging a fixed fee per ride usually 1 euro set by the union in conjunction with the Ministry of Transport In 2009 and 2010 taxi drivers decided to forgo the Christmas doro to show solidarity and sympathy Food servers bartenders and hair dressers get a Christmas doro based on estimated average earnings It also depends on the business and or what contractual agreement is signed between the employee and employer Domestic staff such as valets maids gardeners and cooks receive a Christmas doro that cannot be an amount less than 10 times the legal minimum wage and should be based on actual compensation for services I have no first hand knowledge in this category so questions should be directed at an accountant or epitheorisi employee When is the Christmas doro paid Funds set dates independent from the other but the Christmas doro should not be paid later than December 21 When the doro is not paid by December 21 and an employee files a complaint KEPEA says the absolute latest date for an employer to pay is December 31 The 2014 schedule is December 1 OGA December 4 20 NAT December 19 OAED December 21 Private funds December 22 IKA OAEE and all public sector funds There are deviations if the date falls on a weekend or in the age of austerity and bankruptcy delays due to funding issues An employer can pay earlier if desired The doro should be paid in cash via bank transfer or money in hand Employers cannot substitute gifts company shares vacation or compensatory time off from work etc What if my employer does not pay the Christmas doro You must file a complaint by December 31 In 2011 there was a five fold increase in the number of complaints lodged by employees with 1 545 total from 763 different companies who did not pay the doro on time or at all In 2010 five in 100 workers filed complaints Some companies gave a doro of only 250 300 euros and were pressuring employees to sign a paper saying they received 800 900 euros or else be fired The labor board suspects that the actual number of workers not receiving a doro is 10 times higher Paying the Christmas doro is a lawful obligation not an option N on payment late payment or paying less money than owed is considered a criminal offense punishable with penalties up to six 6 months imprisonment and a fine which cannot be less than 25 percent or more than 50 percent of the amount in dispute Where can I file a complaint Employees are required to file an official complaint in Greek with Ministry of Labor authorities local police usually in rural areas or professional workers organizations The process is not incredibly difficult but is an article in itself Claimants may also call SEPE s dedicated hotline from any landline in Greece at 15512 Most complaints are resolved fairly quickly and in favor of the worker However many workers are afraid to file for fear of losing their jobs which has increased as the economic crisis in Greece deepens The first step is confronting your employer which is what authorities request you do before documenting a full account of your complaint If you have done this and there was no resolution please leave a comment and I will help you Note Please note that I made every effort to be meticulous in my research even though some of the bureaucratic vocabulary was difficult to translate Corrections welcome Sources Personal experience with OAEE formerly TEBE OAED IKA shared experiences from friends who are employees and employers taxi drivers bartenders professional soldiers business owners Πώς υπολογίζεται το Δώρο Χριστουγέννων 2010 KEPEA Πώς υπολογίζεται το Δώρο Χριστουγέννων General KEPEA Προειδοποίηση στους μπαταχτσήδες εργοδότες Eleftherotypia Στο Aυτόφωρο όσοι δεν καταβάλλουν το δώρο των Χριστουγέννων To Vima Τα μυστικά του δώρου Χριστουγέννων Eleftherotypia Factbox Greece s pension reform bill Reuters Factbox Greece prepares key pension reform Reuters Σε χαμηλή πτήση το δώρο Χριστουγέννων Eleftherotypia Ψαλιδισμένο το δώρο των Χριστουγέννων Imerisia Από την Τρίτη το δώρο των Χριστουγέννων στους ανέργους Eleftherotypia Πώς θα δοθεί το έκτακτο επίδοµα Ta Nea Έρχονται τα επιδόματα και τα δώρα Χριστουγέννων article removed Kathimerini Δώρον άδωρον Ta Nea FedEE review of minimum wage rates Federation of European Employers Greece Working time International Labour Organization The snag in Greece s salary solution CNN Money Αδίκημα η μη καταβολή Δώρου Eleftherotypia Greek taxi drivers won t charge passengers extra 1 per ride for Christmas Kathimerini Στις 3 Ιανουαρίου το επίδομα στους χαμηλοσυνταξιούχους του ΟΑΕΕ article removed Kathimerini Δίνουν αντίδωρο το βαφτίζουν δώρο Eleftherotypia 5 στους 100 δεν πήραν Δώρο μόνο μισός το κατήγγειλε Eleftherotypia Related posts Examples of jobs and salaries in Athens Greece How non EU citizens can get a residence and work permit for Greece Who can collect unemployment benefits in Greece About Kat is a well traveled American journalist and author To learn more see About Me Livingingreece gr was created in 2007 to present meticulously researched original articles that fill a gap left by traditional media government portals and commercial websites forums run by people without credentials LivinginGreece is a Twitter feed curated from recognized Greek and international news agencies to provide breaking news about Greece plus real time updates and insider tips mined from 15 years experience Please note my copyright policy and be aware that violations will be pursued http bit ly Christmasdoro Permalink 25 Comments Gra wrote October 25th 2009 at 14 29 Hello Can someone help me out please My wife and I have been living here permanently for 3 years now and we have full time jobs in the summer and both of us collect OAED payments in the winter including the Christmas and Easter bonus etc However we have now heard from a couple of Greek colleagues that we work with that our employer should also pay us a bonus at Christmas Can someone please tell me if this is in fact correct and if so where do we stand legally in demanding this form them I would say we have worked 3 summers now so would this make us entitled to 3 payouts if in fact this is correct Any help or advice would be appreciated Thanks for you time if you answer this query mira wrote June 1st 2010 at 12 13 I would like to know if there is any doro for christmas this year I havent heard anything and its written nowhere thanks Kat Reply December 22nd 2010 at 06 42 There is a Christmas doro every year as long as you qualify for the payment as explained above My article was created to fill a gap and answer readers inquiries past and present Desanka wrote December 22nd 2010 at 15 42 Hi Kat First I must thank you for the website It has been the most reliable source of information for me since I came to Greece one year ago You are great I have a question about Christmas doro I work as a researcher at the University and I pay the insurance myself OAEE I was wondering is it possible that I will also receive something this year Thank you once again and kales giortes Kat Reply December 22nd 2010 at 23 35 Unfortunately workers with OAEE don t get a doro as explained above under Who is entitled to receive a Christmas doro Tina wrote December 22nd 2010 at 19 51 Hi Kat I hope you re having a most wonderful holiday season Thanks so much for posting there s a lot of confusion around the 14 payment system and this will help me better articulate how it works as it often leads to a noisy debate read argument LOL Cheers all the best and love you on twitter Kat Reply December 24th 2010 at 01 44 Hi Tina nice to see you again I understand from a few different readers comments that information on this website settles arguments with a simple forwarded link Glad to be of service And yes Twitter helps me stay connected to all of you on a daily basis Lots of good info and mojo All best and Merry Christmas betabug wrote December 23rd 2010 at 10 25 Hello Kat This is a great article good work The best part for me was clearing up that notion that people receive an extra 13th and 14th salary you straightened that point out clear and easy Thank you for all the informative work you re doing and merry christmas Kat Reply December 24th 2010 at 06 47 I tried explaining it in a past Guardian commentary but people were too busy bashing me to hear the informative bits though a known correspondent did plagiarize those bits Also noticed that no one else had a Christmas doro article in English so I thought it was about time Always nice to be appreciated and thank YOU for your kind words support and longtime readership Merry Christmas BB John wrote December 31st 2010 at 01 59 Dear Kat Thanks for putting together what is I believe the single most informative site for Greece expat related information I write to ask you about health insurance in Greece My wife and I are considering moving to Greece Although British and currently living in the US we probably won t be working in Greece and won t be of retirement age so we would not be eligible for IKA health care insurance after I believe the first year of our residence in Greece In any case it would appear from various posts of yours that the public health system is to be avoided So it seems some sort of health insurance would be a must If so do you have any idea of the types of costs involved for say a bottom of the range plan and middle range plan Somewhere on your site I think you mention 250 Euros a month would that be the going rate Thanks in advance for any information you may be able to offer Best wishes John Note Answered privately via Twitter A L P wrote January 10th 2011 at 16 03 I am particularly interested in the arrangement regarding paying lowly paid pensioners for Xmas 2009 I understand that are 3 categories which are paid 100 200 or 300 euros depending on their total income decared for tax Can someone out there help me Regards and thanks ALP Kat Reply January 11th 2011 at 01 57 The supplement was approved for 2010 not 2009 If you were eligible to receive the supplementary payment from EKAS it should have been automatically included in your Greek pension payment If you are eligible and did not receive it you must inquire with your social insurance carrier in Greece IKA etc and find out why GG World wrote January 14th 2011 at 14 18 Excellent analysis Thanks Kali Xronia susan wrote December 31st 2011 at 13 07 Like many other readers i really appreciate your information Regarding the Christmas doro in the calculation of it you state 900 x 0 041666 938 Should it read x 1 04166 Also i have tried phoning the 15512 number but is unobtainable I have not as yet received my christmas doro from my employer but I have been in contact with them and they say they are going to sort it out next week This will obviously be too late then to lodge a complaint Is there anything else i can do if they do not pay Many thanks Kat Reply December 31st 2011 at 14 24 I gave the same information quoted by KEPEA for the calculation which is why I said According to however you re correct and the edit has been made I suppose I shouldn t attribute them as the source any longer since theirs was wrong but I ll figure it out later because I m in a hurry to leave The 15512 number works fine It s only unobtainable if calling from a cell mobile phone or a line outside Greece Answer to your last question is in the first and last sentences of the section Where do I file a complaint Waiting to the last day to ask me doesn t leave a lot of options but filing with Greek labor authorities is a process extending beyond December 31 under most circumstances leovino wrote December 30th 2012 at 01 18 hello i am a filipino working in a family in ekali and i started my work last feb 12 2012 and i did not receive a christmas bonus my boss said after a year do you think it is my right to ask again i know that my boss knows the policy about bonuses since they are both famous journalists thank you very much if you could help me Kat Reply January 3rd 2013 at 07 29 You didn t provide enough information for me to give an answer specific to your situation The best thing to do is consult directly with the epitheorisi in Greek Επιθεώρησης Εργασίας Every municipality in Greece has an office and you need to find the one nearest you bring your work contract and all related documentation ensima etc and consult with a staff member who will advise you on laws and your options Angie wrote July 17th 2013 at 14 06 Hi ive worked for my employer here in Greece for four years now and never once has he paid me my Christmas doro i have asked about it and he just says that he doesnt pay it I work very long hours seven days a week from May until October Can i ask is he obliged by law to pay it I feel a little worried to push the matter because as you say i might well find myself unemployed next year But i feel this year if i can i must do something about it Regards Angie Kat Reply July 17th 2013 at 20 23 There s no way I can give a yes or no answer since you provided so little information If you work under an official legal valid and signed full time salaried and certified contract and your employer pays IKA then a Christmas Easter summer doro should be paid as it says in the article above If you work without a certified contract then he s under no obligation to pay anything It s assumed you accept these conditions and therefore have no right to stake a claim or complain resi wrote October 17th 2013 at 19 34 I work in a hotel from may until end of october as an animator with normal contract and with Ika I asked about the christmas money and they said to me that all my bonuses ar already in the payment every month but this things are not writen in my contract it is written the amount of money neto not plus that and that is it legal to do that or its just what they say so they dont pay me the christmas money i would be so happy if you could help me with an answer Thank you very much Kat Reply October 19th 2013 at 22 58 There s no way I can give

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  • The importance of speaking Greek in Greece
    experience is routinely looked upon favorably is when you re a CEO See What the résumés of top CEOs have in common In Life It is a widely held belief that most Greeks speak English and Greece caters to an English speaking population That s both true and false In affluent areas larger towns and areas frequented by tourists many know some English especially younger people However the statement All Greeks speak English is greatly exaggerated A majority of ATM cash machines do not offer the option for English even in big cities like Athens and Thessaloniki 95 percent of bureaucratic forms are in Greek and government websites offer slimmed down or outdated English versions of their Greek counterparts Further public sector offices dimos eforia nomarxeia IKA OAED etc are staffed by people who will insist on speaking Greek except in rare instances There are people who live here for years without bothering to learn Greek even at a basic level and survive They congregate with people speaking the same language or multilingual Greeks manage at the grocery store and are dependent on a friend girlfriend boyfriend spouse child or lawyer to do the translating and bureaucratic legwork for them They read only a fraction of Greek news that gets translated to English Greece remains a mysterious stranger to them That s fine I suppose but I found that having even a basic command of Greek does wonders With some grasp of the language independence and confidence replace isolation and fear knowledge chips away at ignorance and closed doors inch open You feel like a functioning adult with a full life instead of a helpless and dependent child and Greece feels more like home than a foreign country Learning Greek isn t the easiest thing in the world but it s not the most difficult either Getting familiar with Greece using wisdom from this website reading my Twitter news feed or hearing what it s like from a friend does not count as knowing something or having first hand experience Jump start your job search If you re an EU citizen or a non EU citizen with a work permit for Greece you can start your job search with the links I ve provided in the right column by scrolling down to the heading Jobs Homes and Auto Ads in Greece and clicking anything that interests you Some websites are bilingual with the best jobs listed in Greek If you re a non EU citizen without a work permit it s best to read How non EU citizens can get a permit to live and work in Greece Why Because there is little point looking for a job if you cannot get a permit unless you plan to work illegally and eventually be blacklisted or deported Related posts Jobs for English speaking Americans non EU citizens in Greece Myth vs reality Free Greek language lessons Why don t you speak Greek fluently http bit ly speakgreek Permalink No comments yet

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  • Do job candidates with Greek surnames have an advantage?
    for providing direction to two sources and sharing a personal account Related Sources Greeks increasingly xenophobic 93 percent against immigrants but not racist Eleftherotypia Native Immigrants Wage Differentials and Occupational Segregation in the Greek Labour Market Michalis Demousis Nicholas Giannakopoulos and Stavros Zografakis Immigrants Migration and Discrimination Greece Migration Citizenship Education Migrant Integration Policy Index Greece Sponsored by the EU British Council Ethnic Discrimination in the Greek Rental Market Nick Drydakis 2007 Year of Immigration Reform link broken Athens News Mixed marriages and discrimination link broken Athens News Xenophobic often racist attitudes of Greeks link broken Athens News Greeks are xenophobic insecure TV addicted Stamos Zoulas Permalink 4 Comments graffic wrote February 1st 2008 at 03 04 This comment will be better in the afternoon with a coffee and in a cafeteria but no coffee for me right now After almost 6 months working in Greece My short and small experience has given me the following Employers can take advantage of you and trick you Some employers talk to you like they re doing you a favour when in fact the one who is saving their asses is you Employers always lie about the job There are no or not so many Greeks with good technical skills Where I work we hired a guy with almost no knowledge in the area needed because nobody wanted to work for us so he has been 1 month learning and of course being paid for it I only know one good Greek manager or perhaps two The guy with the leather seat for his office and wooden floor doesn t understand that employees are not part of the furniture of the company Smokers in the office suck Many Greek employers don t understand that working hard is not work 12 hours per day and is instead working without continuous coffee and cigarette breaks Uf is really late Good night The Scorpion wrote February 1st 2008 at 08 53 I know exactly what you mean I outsmarted my Greek company I work for because on my CV I added an OPOULOS to the end of my name and no one caught it I hope one day they don t figure out that I m not really Greek FMS wrote February 2nd 2008 at 00 58 The opoulos or akis etc strategy doesn t work for a lot of English names I think many people would die laughing if I tried it with mine The Scorpion wrote February 2nd 2008 at 15 04 Hey wait Martin akis Sounds like a brand of apple juice in the states And Martin opoulos sounds like a supermarket Sorry comments are closed at this time Greek News RT PGiannakouris Clouds over the ancient Acropolis hill Ap photo Petros Giannakouris https t co jFy9mSPzNA RT nytimesworld Tales of break ins burglaries and robberies accompany the Greek debt crisis http t co dPVxf6vOb2 http t co diLJm39OQa RT graemewearden Greek parliament approves bailout reform package as it happened http t co

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  • Who is jobless in Greece?
    It s all out of love and that s a beautiful thing any way you look at it Xelidonaki wrote October 27th 2007 at 20 42 and no incentive program to attract Greeks from abroad to come home and bring their expertise money and power with them e g India is attracting millions with this program keeping their workers and booming This is my first time posting but this comment of yours struck me I feel exactly the same way and in fact very angry that Greece does not care or look after foreigners let alone their own I just came across a scholarship program they re promoting in Greece to get people from Asia Africa and Eastern Europe NOT America Australia Canada or Britain or anyone of Greek ancestry to come to Greece all expenses paid and learn the Greek language Isn t this ridiculous in light of the fact that educated Greeks from abroad as well as people who love Greece and want to offer their expertise and intelligence to prosper her are treated so appallingly like slaves I have wanted to go to Greece for a long time My father s family lives there and I hardly know them His village is peaceful The birds seem to always be singing The roads are quiet The people are curious in a flattering way It s perfect But the man down the street who runs the business that would employ me would expect me to be his bed partner or else only pay me 600 Euro per month and that s assuming he remembered to pay me at all So my dreams have been shattered As a Greek Australian my dream of living a quiet country life in the outback here was crushed when I fell prey to the prejudiced racism of the locals who were looking for every reason to excommunicate me from their community because I don t have blonde hair blue eyes and an Anglo Saxon surname This sort of thing exists everywhere you and I know this now and we will take it seriously in the future You at least have somewhere to go to where you will be accepted and treated as an equal I wish you well my friend and think of folk like me from time to time You re never alone in your pain Kat wrote October 27th 2007 at 20 52 Hmmm I can t speak for others but I m not in pain and know that all countries suffer different ills Based on my priorities and the reality before me I used the power of choice to change my life and am looking forward to the future Also no one should assume I m leaving to go back to the USA There are plenty of other countries that are willing and happy to have me DIO wrote November 8th 2007 at 01 01 I m a typical example of this story Value of a university degree in Greece That s a joke for a 3rd world country Add me as another jobless US Greek citizen trying to figure out what the hell I m doing by staying in this country Oh btw I m an attorney who CAN find a job and start stealing from people but won t do that Well it s not my type of thing that s why I think I m headed elsewhere Kat wrote November 8th 2007 at 07 37 Hey thanks for commenting today and nice to meet you I admire you for not becoming corrupt since you re certainly in a position to do that Maybe I ll see you elsewhere People are always telling me you should be more to fit in here And I m thinking why the hell should I The only person I answer to is myself Friends say that Greece is no place for decent people though I don t know if that s true because I do know a lot of nice people Mr A wrote November 8th 2007 at 07 57 What you have done with this site is nothing less than amazing There are many things that I wholeheartedly agree with you on and there are many I disagree with you on but isnt that what makes us grow as humans I am here to implore for help I am still optimistic about my future in Greece I have to serve 6 months of mandatory military service but am confident I can find a good paying job without too much hassle The problem is my American fiancée do you have any suggestions for her She is considering finishing her dental degree and if not purse a masters in either chemistry or pharmaceuticals Any directions you can point us in And through reading all these posts I have yet to understand your attraction to Greece after all these years of hardship I hope it is something more than a masochistic pleasure Thanks for all the useful information and look forward to talking with you Kat wrote November 9th 2007 at 01 31 Sorry Mr A but I ve read your comment a few times and can t figure out what you re specifically asking me Help with what The problem is your American fiancee No comment on that statement Suggestions for your fiancee regarding what Her major her career whether she wants to learn another language culture and face adversity to live in Greece to be with you All of those things are her choice to make after defining her goals in life what would make her happy and what compromises sacrifices she d need to make Any directions regarding what Where to finish her degree in Greece jobs internships Sounds like she needs to make some decisions before going to the next step And btw a degree isn t going to do her much good here This entire website is provided as a resource for you for free I cannot serve as everyone s personal consultant I already have a job and this site earns no income If you have a specific question please feel free to post back P S Even if I tried to explain my connection to Greece I guarantee that most people would not understand As I ve said previously this site is not an online journal and there will be things I never disclose so the best post I can point you to is Four songs in Greek that always make me cry It s on the Best of list Or if you prefer yes I m a masochist DIO wrote November 11th 2007 at 00 45 Yo Kat your site is hands down the BOMB And I almost forgot Friends say that Greece is no place for decent people though I don t know if that s true because I do know a lot of nice people Nobody said that Greeks ain t nice on the other hand the same Greeks constantly harass the government go figure Kat wrote March 26th 2008 at 19 16 D You re probably more in love with my hometown than I am and I hope you get the chance to get away from here and find people who will appreciate the intelligence skills and personality you have to offer which is a lot It is not our plan to go back there since I have no one there anymore and that path would actually be the most difficult and expensive so I don t know if I ll see you there But you never know Filakia K I was thinking about you and your comments the other day thinking what a horrible host I ve been for not addressing you personally Many times when you comment it s like hearing a kindred soul someone who knows exactly what I ve been through and what s to come of me should I stay here the next 30 years I can t I won t And thank goodness I don t have to My last 10 years of beauty and youth have only seen my salary advance 200 euros spending the first 6 years without IKA from my employer paying for my own to keep my permit and changing jobs and filing complaints against ex bosses to get where I am I ve been called names exually harassed and had my skills and experience insulted the same skills that get me jobs without an interview in the UK USA Sweden Spain Australia etc Go figure I have also been of childbearing years this entire time and my bosses have typically asked me to promise NOT to get pregnant that s illegal or laid me off at any hint of a serious boyfriend Mind you we had plenty of work and I knew how to do more of it than my co workers In many ways I completely understand and totally envy women who are married to wealthy men and have children or otherwise don t need to work either supported by funds of their own their parents or a trust fund What a nice life it would be if I didn t spend my days being disrespected hassled and molested from the time I leave the house until I come home at night But my career and making a purposeful contribution to this world have always been important to me and I think it s important for my future kids to see their mom accomplishing a lot so it may inspire them to do the same That won t happen here It might also be easier if I had the option to travel to the USA or another place at will for a break as you said previously but our Greek salaries and rent just don t allow it as we re not recipients of property and I m glad about that because there is honor in buying my own Thankfully after 10 years I ve found gainful work outside GR of course that pays me better and on time and my fiance for the first time in his life here also has a career that will translate outside these borders And fortunately we have no opposition from his mother or other ties keeping us here though I know that s not always the case for everyone I understand we sometimes make compromises depending on circumstances This country could be so amazing People like Hope Athena and Dio are all young educated dynamic people ready to make a difference All they need is opportunity and freedom to flourish not the corruption and suppression that allow no good seed to grow Krima Karen wrote March 26th 2008 at 18 43 Having lived and worked in Greece for the past 30 years my advice to anyone thinking of coming here is to do so only after you have secured a good job I could write a book with my experiences and if I had it to do over again I d probably not but hey thats life and we make our choices I do know that salaries are very low particularly for women and can be a degrading experience And unfortunately some Greek women do not help themselves by dressing in the workplace like they do for the bouzoukia but then they are mostly trying to snag their rich boss There are exceptions but my advice Greece does not have a good labor market and a foreigner will have a hard time finding and keeping work here unless you have a special expertise none of your business wrote April 2nd 2008 at 22 33 Good riddance to bad rubbish I m sure your future Greek inlaws will have some kind of Greek inheritance for you to sink your fangs into when they die c nt People like you make me sick F ck off and die Kat wrote April 4th 2008 at 00 15 So let me get this straight You gripe about women who don t work and women like me who make their own way in the world marry someone for love not money and love working and see honor in purchasing their own home make you sick And that makes me a c nt As my future inlaws have no property or savings I ll happily inherit nothing and be supporting them on my huge American salary because IKA won t cut it which is OK with me because my family is dead Btw you re a Greek in Ontario Canada Mississauga to be exact so I m not sure why you re saying good riddance to my departure from Greece when you don t live here I know you re the same predictable person from Mel s site and I published your comment so everyone can see that you are not the nice kind non bitter and stable person you claim to be Like I said you have some serious issues and it s my belief that your time and energy would be better spent on finding your own happiness since it s clearly absent from your life Krima Kali Tyxi P S Why do you keep visiting the site when you have such a low opinion of me Note from Kat The previous commentator s swearing was censored to avoid certain Google searches from landing here Her email address also contained profanity Gerasimos wrote April 4th 2008 at 01 54 I find that the people who resort to name calling and insults are jealous lowlifes who have nothing intelligent to say Also I find it ironic that much of the rhetoric you get comes from Greeks outside Greece and not actual people who live here karen wrote April 4th 2008 at 09 42 Kat Thx for your comments Clearly you understand and have experienced the difficulties of assimilating to life in Greece I am indeed fortunate that at this stage in my life I am able to spend extended periods in the US and when I come back to Greece it makes it more bearable My son who was born in Greece but educated partly here and the US loves visiting Greece for a vacation but has told me at this stage in his life is just not a viable solution for his career When he visits and sees his old Greek school friends is when he most notices the difference in their take on life Many of them still live at home with mom and dad some do not work from wealthy families and others are still getting a degree after 10 years in the university system He actually feels bad for them that they have not experiened anything outside what they know since they were kids As much as I love being a mom I think it is rather unhealthy to have your kids at home indefinately How can they then become responsible adults and parents if they have never learned to fend for themselves This is a major problem with Greek younger people today I know many parents who provide everything for their 20 30 year old kids homes money cars etc I think we can help our children but in moderation George wrote April 10th 2008 at 06 03 Kat I just read your site today and it is certainly very insightful My case in a nutshell raised and finished high school with average grades in Thes niki moved to Australia for tertiary education with the naive dream of returning I am very fortunate to have a dual citizenship otherwise would not afford this Empowered by the more open educational system here 8 years later I am finishing a Masters degree in Melbourne fluent in 3 languages with some 2yrs IT industry labor experience in Australia and a stint working in Central America where yes I have found labor conditions rather preferable to Greece I wish to relocate to Europe at some stage in the next yr as I find Australia rather isolated geographically Also it would be nice to be close to my homeland and be able to visit family more than once every 7 years And from a traveller s perspective I love the feel of Europe which is another motivation to seek something there I am not seriously considering returning to Greece herself to live though because of army 1 wasted year I don t enjoy cleaning toilets in the worst case or sitting on my behind doing nothing in the best case without pay high unemployment in the skilled sector as you mention above the need to live in Athina a city I don t enjoy rather low wages compared to EU 15 and the high inflation and daily get by expenditure very limited career stimulation and progression although that can depend on a corporate culture also so I can t be absolute on this But yes country culture can influence corporate culture to a degree perhaps most importantly favoritism and LACK OF CONNECTIONS meson barba I come from a low to middle class Greek family who rightly urge me to unconditionally love Greece but live away from her yet close enough to visit her Kat I face at least 2 less obstacles than you in that I am a EU citizen and male Yet I am still not seriously considering going to Greece Your site reaffirms this belief and goes beyond the emotional attachment to Greece that we all in this site feel to varying extents It is true for all its flaws I think it is impossible for someone not to love Greece or any country of their direct or indirect descendence for that matter A few questions for you as I contemplate my potential move return to Europe at the not so tender age of 25 have you considered Spain I have flirted with the idea I know from many Sp friends and limited research salaries are higher and living expenses somewhat lower than Greece Productivity is albeit slightly

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  • Income tax rates & receipts in Greece
    δεν καλύπτουν τα ταμεία συμπεριλαμβάνονται στο αφορολόγητο των 12 000 Imerisia Δεν αποτελούν τεκμήριο οι αποδείξεις για το αφορολόγητο To Vima In the News No tax please we re Greek BBC Crisis hit Greeks scramble for receipts Reuters Greek wealth is everywhere but tax forms NY Times Ever changing Greek tax system a factor in crisis Boston com Highlights Greek finance minister unveils tax reform wage policy Reuters Tax and spending policy ready eKathimerini First task of Hercules Persuade Greeks to be honest about their taxes The Economist Playing cat and mouse with tax evaders in Greece Reuters Taxing the rich worldwide Tax Foundation More than half of Greeks dodge taxes Kathimerini Related posts Value added tax rates of Greece List of DOY Eforia Tax Offices in Greece Image capture from Ta Nea Updates pending http www ethnos gr article asp catid 26980 subid 2 pubid 63634419 http www tovima gr finance article aid 463202 http www tovima gr finance article aid 470911 http www tanea gr oikonomia article aid 4766545 http www tovima gr finance article aid 492039 http www tovima gr finance article aid 488795 http www tanea gr news economy article 4775901 http www tovima gr society article aid 490922 http www tovima gr finance article aid 492663 http www tovima gr finance article aid 551130 Permalink 31 Comments FMS wrote February 15th 2010 at 05 45 All that this will do is create a black market in receipts whose value will be set by the potential cost to those taxpayers without sufficient receipts How will it reduce the black economy Answer it won t it will either be neutral or increase it How will it help the state budget A it won t The problem of the greek economy is that it doesn t produce goods for export and of the few that it does they are hard hit by the high price of the Euro Equally imports are cheap for greeks so the balance of trade is very bad for the greek economy since the imports are of consumer products and not raw materials for production purposes An intelligent person might conclude that the problem of the Greek economy is membership of the Eurozone rather than non payment of taxes Hopeless Krista wrote February 16th 2010 at 15 37 In my opinion this system will only tax those with lower incomes and those who are trying to save their money Apart from food and clothes to a limited extent the rest of the expenses that are supposed to account for 10 30 of income are frivolous purchases that not everyone needs wants or can afford to make Furthermore the fact that only expenses that are spent within Greece can be claimed doesn t take into account the poor quality of goods and services and are available here Kat Reply February 18th 2010 at 19 05 It s a bit unfair that someone earning 12 050 needs to come up with 30 in receipts when he she could have earned a tad less and only produced 10 Hardworking people who earn their own money agree with what you re saying about quality and competitiveness My friends and I often turn to vendors outside Greece because even with shipping and handling top quality items cost less and there s more variety and better service People haven t grasped that all of us pay for the sins of self interest And economically Greece has a long term problem beyond crisis mode because it fails to innovate has some of the highest export import fees in the EU and manufactures nothing as FMS said above Kat wrote February 20th 2010 at 10 48 I welcome input from my readers but let s remember that this is an informative article and I expressed no opinion Please keep to respectful discussion Bel I won t publish your last comment because there was no reprimand If my comment was aimed specifically at you I would have attached it accordingly I did not I think readers forget that this is my website and people hold me responsible for everything If you look at other objective articles I wrote I was called names and personally attacked for being biased even though the data wasn t mine and opinions belonged to readers Bel Ludovic wrote February 20th 2010 at 10 07 FMS says that the problem with the Greek economy is not the non collection of taxes but low exports I don t see it as an either or situation there can be more than one problem with the Greek economy y know and indeed there are many So many that my head could explode just thinking about it all Low exports and lack of innovation are indeed amongst them And Greek membership of the eurozone Well it s had its pluses and minuses I d say it s a close run thing But to suggest that non payment of taxes isn t a problem for the Greek economy and that suggesting so is stupid is bizarre It is definitely a problem and I ve never up until now known anyone to suggest otherwise Unfortunately unless the Greek mentality undergoes a significant and admittedly quite improbable transformation then taxation will continue to be evaded people will still give jobs to their mates museums will still close mid afternoon and Greece will remain the second rate has been that it is now NB Despite my pseudonym I am Greek FMS wrote February 21st 2010 at 03 21 Bel the fact that nobody else shares my opinion does not deter me in the least The issue of non payment of taxes is peripheral and since 1997 the greek state has collected its revenues perfectly adequately although with income distributional effects that are appalling that is with the poor paying far too much and the rich very little Furthermore non payment of taxes is rather a symptom of the general problem of illegality corruption and patronage in Greece So did Papandreou deal with the real issues in these tax changes No not at all Did he implement workable measures No not at all who is going to check all of these receipts Nobody will Overall it is a stupid policy Insofar as membership of the Euro is concerned it has been an unmitigated disaster All of the expected problems for a mismatched economy in a currency union were exhibited by Greece since joining that is inflationary pressure above the regional norm concealed by lies high unemployment of young people declining competitiveness across all economic sectors and interest rates that are set too low because of being in the Euro Your reactions as were all Greek economists and politicians at the time of joining have nothing to do with reality and everything to do with Greeks feeling that they have the right to be in the Euro Economics doesn t work like that that sort of sentiment is merely political So I stand by my comments The underlying social and structural causes of the Greek economy s failings have still not been addressed even in outline Who is talking about removing lifetime jobs from malakes who do nothing Who is discussing the pension system that pays pensions double or triple their wages to a minority that retires even at 48 while the majority receives pensions below subsistence level Who is discussing the dependency ratio and how either Greeks need to retire at 70 or you will need mass immigration for enough workers to support the retired and also pay the healthcare costs Bel Ludovic wrote February 21st 2010 at 18 08 Whatever residual disagreement I have with you regarding tax collection and euro membership is eclipsed entirely by my agreement with your last paragraph Hear hear and well said Kat wrote February 21st 2010 at 21 25 My readers are the bomb nikos wrote February 28th 2010 at 10 53 if this ridiculous receipt policy goes ahead and they make a nation effectively into accountants wasting their lives writing down lists or receipts with AFM of companies I will claim illiteracy I can t read or write guy FMS wrote February 28th 2010 at 13 48 i agree completely Niko Something else I didn t mention before but it absolutely central to this debate in my experience Greek shops are the most law abiding in the EU with regard to issuing apodeixi In both Britain and Austria where I go frequently many shopkeepers seem to be unable to issue the correct receipts deliberately of course The troublemakers in Greece with receipts are the following doctors and their so called fakelaki which actually should be called parcels dentists building contractors periptera which are not even required to issue them in law and taxi drivers Sean wrote September 11th 2010 at 00 40 My Greek wife and myself want to do a small Classical tours business in the peloponnesus I am an EU citizen and we do have a villa on the sea on the Patras Corinthian Gulf Small groups would stay with us and do trips out to Delphi etc We imagine running a low profile business bringing in say 30 40 000 euros a year in a five to six month season Our accountant also used when building the villa painted a sad picture of all sorts of payments We had to ask ourselves is it worth it Surely there are tax allowances for each of us as Directors of our small concern Is the first 12000 euros free of tax for both of us and are our VAT payments for food petrol etc taken into account before tax Also since this is a cultural venture is there any help remittance to attract people to Greece and show them the real greek experience Sean Kat Reply September 11th 2010 at 01 22 Answer to your first question about the tax free threshold and VAT in Greece is above Your accountant should have been able to easily answer this question No matter how you label it cultural venture real Greek experience are there fake Greek experiences it s a for profit business in tourism The Greek National Tourist Organisation does 12 million in advertising to attract tourists as mentioned in Kalimera If you re looking for something more keep in mind that the Greek economy is in dire straits and the government raised our taxes twice this year and is not in a position to be gratuitous Because your wife is Greek she should be able to read Greek news or do research on available subsidies grants or loan programs in Greece for small businesses George wrote October 25th 2010 at 07 08 Hi Kat Amazing work on the website the breadth and depth of the topics you cover is truly remarkable I have frequently directed friends from outside Greece to livingingreece gr for all their questions everyone has found the information very valuable so thank you you have saved me a huge amount of time It s the first time I m posting here and I was wondering if you could provide your insight on GR income tax I m Greek living in Greece mostly but I travel a lot almost as much as you did And I m staying in the US or countries in Asia for 2 3 months at a time I m working as a freelance IT consultant for companies around the world So my work doesn t physically take place in Greece My objective is to not be liable to pay tax in Greece and since I only stay in Greece 5 6 months a year I was wondering if I could make this happen Is there a non domicile tax status test that I could pass I ve seen 183 days mentioned in a few websites but I m not sure if it applies to GR as well Some friends suggested that I look into getting residency in Monaco by renting a small studio there so I could be liable for income tax there instead of Greece Would I have to renounce my Greek citizenship to do that And I guess I would also have to see if Monaco has a double treaty taxation with Greece for income tax right Kat Reply October 26th 2010 at 01 31 Hi George As I say in the first section of this article and all my tax articles it s best to direct questions to an accountant on tax matters because laws change often guessing gets people into trouble and I m not a tax expert I only dispense practical information I also have no insight on this matter because a I m not a Greek citizen b I m happy to pay my taxes in Greece or the USA and c I intentionally chose an accountant who does everything straight Double taxation treaties only mean that a person is not obligated to pay tax in both countries that paying tax in one country suffices in satisfying the other I do not see where the 183 days would apply to you since being a Greek in Greece or abroad obligates you to pay tax no matter where you earned your income just as being an American earning income in Greece the USA or anywhere obligates me to pay tax I recommend finding an adept Greek accountant and taking a look at Monaco s official government portal http www gouv mc devwww wwwnew nsf HomeGb Thank you so much for introducing yourself and your kind words Because I do not advertise most of my readers come randomly through providing solid content or by word of mouth so recommending me to so many people is much appreciated All best Paul wrote March 14th 2011 at 14 09 Hi Kat I love your site I am going to apologize in advance if this has been covered elsewhere I moved to greece from the states in 2010 I am both a greek and US citizen I am trying to figure out how to declare taxes as I have not found work yet in greece Do I have to show how I support myself as I have no income in the US either I see that you noted above you have an accountant that is straight if here in greece would you mind giving me there info Via email of course Thanks again and keep up the great work Follow up Thanks Kat Understand completely I really appreciate the info Also if I come across anything that I learned I will post or inform you Kat Reply March 15th 2011 at 00 38 Hi Paul As I m sure you re aware tax laws were overhauled last year and I m terribly uncomfortable dispensing any answers on the subject because of it What I can tell you is there are many circumstances under which you are obligated to file a tax statement i e If you own bought or inherited property house car boat etc collect rent sell farm products So yes I do recommend finding an accountant to be sure I d love to give you a name But because this is Greece and your expectations may be different than mine I cannot assume responsibility for what happens should your experience be less than stellar I hope you are empathetic and not offended by what I m saying I sure appreciate your kind words and I hope this website can continue to help or entertain you in the future All my best K Follow up Thank you for your understanding and willingness to give back Hope to see you again Co Blu wrote March 15th 2011 at 10 57 We will not be filing our receipts electronically via an e form but we do wish to record our receipts on an Excel spreadsheet at home Does anyone know of a template that might be available on line for this purpose Many thanks Kat Reply March 16th 2011 at 00 50 Hi I don t know of an online template but I created my own based on the information the Greek tax office requires Date Name of Business Business Owner s AFM Description of Items purchased Amount Spent in Euros Thanks for your question George wrote April 12th 2011 at 23 03 Your website is a Godsend for me and probably any foreigner living in Greece Thank you so much My question I am a resident here I have a pension from IKA TAMPY Tax seems to be deducted from source How do I calculate my receipts for Greece when for example last year I spent about 5 months out of the country Is there a pro rata rate for people who don t live here 100 of the time No way I can justify the minimum for the year so do I get a partial exemption Or maybe the Government didn t think about such things My dream of living in and enjoying Greece after paying social security all these years not to mention the work and sacrifice I made to achieve this seems to be crumbling away very quickly Appreciate your knowledge on this subject By the way last year I employed one of the so called professional accountants to fill in my tax declaration forms for me my wife and kids They did it wrong didn t declare a car that was easily spotted on the previous years declaration which was showed to him and now we not sure how to get that back on the declaration So my point is those professionals are not that professional at all Like a lot of services here in Greece Thanks in advance for any advice Cheers G Kat Reply April 12th 2011 at 23 26 Hi George nice to see you again Calculation of receipts is based solely on income not the amount of time you spend in the country You are considered a permanent resident of Greece if you

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  • The power of choice: A different kind of 9/11 story
    when the first plane hit tower one was among the lucky ones who decided to start climbing down the stairs instead of up as many others did listening to the confused orders of the security personnel and went down with the tower eventually This has been the greatest tragedy I have personally experienced witnessing it from across the Hudson with so many stories of friends and colleagues affected by it Kat Reply September 11th 2007 at 20 55 Manblogg Cantor Fitzgerald occupied the 101 105th floors of Tower 1 the most amazing views of New York but just above where the plane hit No chance at all just as you said This is why they suffered the most losses more than firefighters more than medical personnel I m haunted by images of people jumping choosing to take their own life instead of waiting for death to come I would have done the same melusina wrote September 12th 2007 at 01 12 It really makes you wonder in all the decisions we make every day how many might have lead us to death It creeps me out I ve heard many similar could have ended up dying in 9 11 stories and it gives me chills Yet 2996 people 19 terrorists made their choices too And we grieve for it I don t know I hate to judge people for their greed because I understand where it comes from and being in the same position who knows which job I would have taken But it does say something to have the choice and make a different one than the greedy one Money isn t everything and from most of the people I know who have it in abundance it sure doesn t make them very happy Kat Reply September 12th 2007 at 06 56 Mel Choices however small take us in different directions even in daily life The owner of Cantor Fitzgerald survived because he was taking his son to school one might say oh that s just luck But looking deeper his commitment to family was more important than work If I had died that day or any day since I m OK with that because it would have happened while doing something I love and I ve had quite a good run on this planet already P S Money in itself is not evil it s how it s used graffic wrote September 12th 2007 at 01 25 That day I was working and I arrived home switched on the TV and I said c mon I want to see the news not those american movies with special effects In fact it was the video of the second plane crashing when I changed channel I just realized what was happening there was real Then there were bombs in 3 suburban trains in Madrid they exploded at the same time And almost one year ago a bomb in the new Airport terminal in Madrid collapsing half parking building I have no words really zardoz wrote September 13th 2007 at 23 17 strong choice strong story z Zorba the Greek wrote September 16th 2007 at 01 27 Hoping that I m expressing the vast majority of my fellow Greeks when I say six years after the deadly terrorist attacks of 9 11 our thoughts are with those who lost their relatives and friends The 9 11 attack was such an unforgettable tragic event Kat wrote September 16th 2007 at 07 15 Some people call it luck Really Many who know me say I m the unluckiest person alive Some call it fate Are we but helpless puppets in this life Some say oh you knew it would happen Hmmm I don t remember getting a memo or having psychic powers Some people call it coincidence Really Many say there is no such thing it s just a series of decisions Some say God saved you Too bad I m an atheist Some tell me that I deserved to die that day and still do How sweet I make conscious choices each day that guide my life and that is my truth Live yours Thank you Stathis Rositta Dylan Graffic Mel Manblogg Zardoz and Zorba Very kind of all of you to make comments And special thanks to EllasDevil who featured my post on his blog Comments of a mean spirited judgmental or ignorant nature were moderated deleted Simon wrote November 15th 2007 at 20 55 Have you heard this Death s story There was a merchant in Baghdad who sent his servant to market to buy provisions and after a while the servant came back white and trembling and said Master just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a woman in the crowd and when I turned I saw it was Death that jostled me She looked at me and made a threatening gesture now lend me your horse and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me The merchant lent him his horse and the servant mounted it and he dug his spurs in its flanks and as fast as the horse could gallop he went Then the merchant went down to the marketplace and saw Death standing in the crowd and went up to him and said Why did you make a threatening gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning Death replied That was not a threatening gesture it was only a startle of surprise I was astonished to see him in Baghdad for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra Kat Reply November 18th 2007 at 05 58 S I believe in fate to some extent but that would mean we have absolutely no control over our lives One could interpret the story to mean that making irrational decisions speeds us toward our fate another might see it as a story illustrating that

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